Thanks again. Performance doesn't seem to have improved. R134a is the most widely accepted alternative automotive refrigerant used to replace R12. With R134a you do not rely on the site glass. "Howdy, Folks!" R134a is otherwise called 1,1,1,2 Tetrafluoroethane, Florasol 134a, Freon 134a, Norflurane (INN) or HFC 134a. This kit comes complete with Expansion valve, o-ring kit, and 1ft. The money you will save by will pay for the R12. If your cars system has a sufficient condenser design and air flow to expel the greater amount of heat extracted by R134a, then by all means you should convert over when the time comes. Add to cart. R134a is called tetrafluoroethane (HFC). However, if it is taken close to a fire flame or any electrical heating element, it disintegrates into toxic products. Kommentare . Bottom line, R134a simply doesn't cool as well as R12. A good T/C, clamped to the line & insulated gives a repeatable measurement of the tube. . Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. It slowly gets warmer and warmer in the car, even at highway speeds. The car never overheats, if that has any import. Thread starter goldNSX; Start date 1 August 2009; Tagged . Your average garage that works on a/c on the side probably would not have this. A capacity curve is shown in figure 2 for relative capacity of R134a vs. R12 for evaporating temperatures from 0F to 50F. -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." For example, at an evap temp of 30 (your daughter's system is probably running around 25-28 saturated in order to give a 32 duct temp), the pressure of R-134a is 26.1psi. In cases such as this, the required capacity value of the expansion valve with R134a is reduced by 30% (correction factor 1.42). If you have 10 ounces of oil in the system, that is contributing to the poor performance as well. Its chemical symbol is CCl2F2. The newer valves and switches will work with both refrigerants. hardly noticable. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Read on for more information about using automotive r134a in a refrigerator and vice versa. On the other hand, R12 has a global warming potential of 10,910. However, R134a is better than R12. Failure to abide by the EPA regulations can result in expensive fines for either you or your service technician. Looks like a couple of things happening here1) 80's vintage Eurocars were not "meat lockers". R134a requires a different oil. Its chemical symbol is CH2FCF3. maintain the A/C of older cars. Catalog E-1, Thermostatic & Automatic Expansion Valves / Page 1 Table of Contents . and an evaporator core and expansion valve that are optimized for R134a . Until 1995, most cars with air conditioning used R-12 Freon refrigerant which has shown to have an environmental impact. Most of all the differences gravitate to longevity, functionality, and safety. What is usually sniffed are all the connections in the system: hoses and compressor, condenser, drier, expansion valve and evaporator fittings. But some types of PAG do not mix well with the old residual R12 mineral oil left in the system components whereas ester does mix very well. With the oil leaking out and being told all sorts of things about how these compressors don't have a sump etc, I wanted to be on the safe side. How is the vent airflow?I would jumper the aux fan & check the performance. However, it was found to be a very bad gas for the environment. "Jerky Locker" LMAO I am using that one in the future!Florida = BUGS! Not osmosis, but you know what I mean). Edited: Sat July 14, 2007 at 10:22 PM by fonebone. June 21, 2022 difference between r12 and r134a expansion valve . It is perhaps possible to locate a unit with a company that purchases close out or distressed merchandise. Though you can purchase 12 or 16 ounce cans of R134a from local retailers it is very difficult to measure out the correct amount into your system. So I probably put the highest suggested amount in to be safe. R134a vs R12 refrigerant? ESP when a compressor has frozen. There are significant differences between R12, R134a, and R513A, which must be considered when handling, processing, applying, or retrofitting with these refrigerants. Instead of using R12, its preferable to use R134a because it is very easy to find in the market, its sold at an affordable price, and is environmentally friendly. The sticker typically has a place to note the amount of refrigerant used, the type of oil and amount of oil, the technicians sign off or name and the date of the conversion. The smoking question & vent airflow indicate that the evaporator is fairly clean - and you are aware of the importance of that.The heater valve stops the flow, but there is always some conduction heating. Post photos, respond to polls and access other special features. Temp switch works the aux fan. There is a lot of differences between the R12 and the R134a fittings, you can't mistake them. The global warming potential measures the amount of heat trapped by any gas compared to the amount of heat trapped by the same amount of carbon dioxide. R12 is otherwise called dichlorodifluoromethane is a colorless gas (chlorofluorocarbon halomethane (CPC) that is used as an aerosol spray propellant and a refrigerant, and is soluble in organic solvents. Different correction factors are applied to other refrigerants. This can be very very expensive. The condensor airflow drops off as the fan clutch dies slowly. Then again, there are two different expansion valves. PaulJerky King -------------------------1983 Mercedes 240D on R12 and WVO!1192 Mercedes 300D 2.5 R134a1993 Toyota Pickup converted to R134a. leading to corrosion of expansion valves, capillary tube plugging, and compressor bearing . With the knowledge of the differences, youll be able to draw a comparison between R12 vs R134a efficiency. Do I leave the orignal condensor in, etc?Thanks. I think the way to go here is1. It is usually sold under the brand name, Freon 12. 1.5 ounces - hmmm. A York oil capacity is listed as "6.5 to 9.6 ounces". Generally you follow the refrigerant flow moving from connection to connection, component to component, and you sniff the a/c vents to check for evaporator leaks as well. In more serious, it could result in cardiac irregularities or death. Don't like the sound of custom parallel condensor. For those of you who are considering what the cost is for R12 you can think of it this way: Dont go out to dinner this weekend. What is needed? The common problem when converting from R12 to R134a is lack of knowledge or equipment. It didn't seem too dirty though - I don't think it is the problem, but I could be wrong. The expansion valve is designed so that the temperature of the refrigerant at the evaporator outlet must have 8 to 12F (4 to 7C) of superheat before more refrigerant is allowed to enter the evaporator. If you're getting a R134a compressor, might as well finish the job - replace the receiver/dryer, flush everything else, and convert to R134a anyhow. Theres no problem with using R134a in a home air conditioning system because it is a hydrofluorocarbon that doesnt cause environmental harm. Some compressor manufacturers or OEMs suggest PAG type oil for R134a. Usually, mechanics charge around $200 for conversion. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. (On firewall where A/C lines go into cab.) El maig de 2016, un grup damics van crear un lloc web deOne Piece amb lobjectiu doferir la srie doblada en catal de forma gratuta i crear una comunitat que inclogus informaci, notcies i ms. I'm just trying to help you avoid headaches in the long run. Does it matter - assuming both are new & uncontaminated? The higher the ambient temperature the higher the high side pressure. The compressors used by refrigeration plants to compress gas require oil to help lubricate its moving parts. Can I just use an adapter and save $200? Paul:It is never a waste of my time to chat with someone that understands the problem, and wants to fix it. Use a drop light in the engine bay, and check the air path from the front of the car at night. Later model cars that come with 134A will have 134A only connectors. In sum, R12 has done more bad than good. A slow loss of cooling at city speeds is usually related to condensor capacity & airflow issues. All fans must work at 100% of the OEM rating. If not, you just don't know unless a test is performed. You should keep in mind that recharging your air conditioner improperly could result in more serious damage. With that said, I would source the TXV from another source such as NAPA just to avoid any problems. Anyone know what happens when an R12 expansion valve is used in a system charged with R134A? I cleaned the evap as best I could, if that is what you are getting at. Mark Baker R-401b is the mixture by weight of 61% R22, 11% R-152a and 28% of R-124. R-12 to R-134a Conversion. Make sure visiually that no large gaps exist that would allow the air to bypass the condensor on the way to the radiator.B. Look at where the lines will end up. There is only a temperature switch on these cars as far as I recall, and it just switches on the aux fan. When the ambient air temps get above 80F the gauge readings can run a bit higher on the high side and lower on the low side when using R134a. One of the differences between auto air conditioners that have been redesigned from R12 to R134a is that the condensers have gone from serpentine to pseudo-parallel. It is a known suspect that lets heat into the heat exchanger/core even when off because the mono-valve is on the exit side of the heater core. The R134a compressor has a 1/8" step in on the high side port. Neuro spine Super Speciality Clinic - Above Apollo Pharmacy, Bangarpet Circle, Kolar - Bangarpet Road, Kolar Town. Inasmuch as R134a has a global warming potential thats over 1000 times more threatening than carbon dioxide, its better than R12. In a car ac, using this type of freon 20 years ago was difficult. So you could likely put off buying those new hoses just a bit longer if you wanted. Moreso, it had been banned. 30 deg is pretty coldSystems generally run between 40 and 43 deg. of refrigerant insulation tape. These cheap kits usually have a few cans of R134a (either 12 ounce or 16 ounce), maybe an extra can of refrigerant oil, a few generic R134a charge port adapters and maybe some o-rings. Yes it will work with either Refrigerant! If you have a perfectly operating system using R12 you do not have to drop what you are doing and convert to R134a. Since there is only about a 10% difference between R-12 and R-134a, the expansion valve being self-compensating really doesn't make that much difference. I'm thinking of jumping the temp switch and leaving the fan on to see how it does. There are two hoses listed, R-12 64-53-1-377-821 for $72.50, and R-134a 64-53-8-391-051 fro $262.50. If there is no pusher fan, and you have the room, put one in. This refers to BTU's (heat) moved per pound of refrigerant moved. The exact amount will vary with each car. shown for the parallel flow, aluminum condenser that is listed. Safe but sorry! But R22 is almost equally damaging. Its duty is to convert toxic gasses produced by the engine into A brake cleaner is a powerful solvent for cleaning dirt from the brakes and other car components. = R134a Charge Level. R134a requires the use of synthetic oil! -------------------------"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest." It won't be optimal, though.On some/many valves, you can adjust them, but that might make matters worse unless you really know what you're doing (which I don't!).RegardsGeorge. Yep, definately not a meat locker. The primary function of the design engineer is to make things difficult for the fabricator and impossible for the serviceman. As an example, let's say the R12 charge specification is listed at 2 lbs. video clubhouse baseball; nick fairley draft profile; ben davis work pants But, if your old compressor has lock-up or if your current expansion valve is not functional it would wise to replace the expansion valve with a valve designed for R134a. In the automotive world, the replacement for R12 was R134a. At 40, it is 35psi, which is a difference of 8.9psi. In a comparison between R12 vs R134a vs R1234yf, R1234yf will pass as the best refrigerant. $21 . Also, would a genuine R12 TXV be better, or is it too marginal to worry about?I think I should do the FSM test for performance - they have a graph with ambient temp and a/c temp. AFAIK, there is no clutch on the engine fan on the 240D. Can I use the one for the R-12? It won't be optimal, though. Besides R134a there are some other refrigerants that are approved to replace R12 and there is a long list of refrigerants that are not approved. The condenser water inlet temperature and flow rate are controlled with the use of a . It's best to determine on a case-by-case basis while monitoring system pressures and output air temperature. Nevertheless, if your application is configured only for R12, then you can use it or consider replacing the applications engine. The safe high side pressures are determined with a PT (pressures and temperatures) chart. Generally, the new amount is 75-85% of the quantity advised by the manufacturer. You do not however need to replace all the o-rings or seals for a simple conversion, it is simply a logical thing to do when and if the time comes to work or replace certain components because of age issues. Since 2010, all home AC systems manufactured use a refrigerant like R134a that has zero ozone depletion potential (ODP). 37 in 2005 tacoma, R134A. The catalytic converter is an essential component of your car's emission system that helps save the environment from harmful emissions. That way I will have reduced the oil by about 1/3 (assuming the oil is mixed evenly through the system). 5) A/C System Failure. Expansion Valve. Maybe a jerky locker.I cleaned the condensor with the off the shelf ac cleaner stuff from Home Depot that I used on my home evaporator.